Misinterpreting this verse and changing its natural (and traditional) meaning only leads to confusion for those who aim is to understand what the Book of Mormon is saying. “We’re saved by grace in spite of all we can do,” he responded. Later in time; as, after supper. Romans 8:1. What would the Lord accomplish with "a marvelous work and a wonder"? 1 And now, Jacob, I speak unto you: Thou art my a firstborn in the days of my tribulation in the wilderness. wet. As we continue to study Nephi and Isaiah this week- there are several excellent topics for lessons. In that distinction the beauty and glory of the Atonement, the balanced claims of justice and mercy shine forth as no where else, even in holy writ, — much less in the uninspired writings of men. “After all we can do” means leading chaste, clean, pure lives, being scrupulously honest in all our dealings and treating others the way we would want to be treated (The Teachings of Ezra Taft Benson, p. 354. As we talked, I referenced 2 Nephi 25:23. Ellipsis in original). 2 Nephi 25:30. Math. Book Review: The Divine Gift of Forgiveness by Apostle Neil L. Andersen. — 2 Nephi 25:23. (2 Nephi 25:4) 2. The knowlege of the Messiah will be preserved. By his grace, we live and breathe. I explained how I enjoy giving away 12th President Spencer Kimball’s book to Latter-day Saints walking to events sponsored by The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, including General Conference sessions, temple open house events, and BYU football games. Why did most not look at the Brass serpent that would save them and what did the Brass serpent represent? @Deadworm, I thank you for your words and presence on this forum. Real repentance, real change may … For the other five definitions, let’s see how that might work for 2 Nephi 25:23: No example can be found in the 1828 dictionary to support the idea that “after” could mean “apart from all we can do,” “all we can do notwithstanding,” “regardless of all we can do,” or “in spite of all we can do.” Thus, it is highly unlikely that any reader in Smith’s day could have understood this verse to mean anything other than a person is saved by grace after (“later in time”) all they can do. After whom is the king of Israel come out? For instance, twelfth President Spencer W. Kimball introduced 2 Nephi 25:23 by writing this: One passage in the Book of Mormon, written perhaps with the same intent as Paul’s statement above—to stress and induce appreciate for the gracious gift of salvation offered on condition of obedience—is particularly enlightening (The Miracle of Forgiveness, p. 207. “After all we can do” includes loving our fellowmen and praying for those who regard us as their adversary. All of the principles of the gospel are principles of promise by which the plans of the Almighty are unfolded to us” “All we have to do in order to be prepared to enter the presence of the Lord is to forsake our sins, come unto Him, call on His name, obey His voice, and keep His commandments; then we shall be able to see His face and to know that He is” (Harold B. Lee, Stand Ye in Holy Places: Selected Sermons and Writings of President Harold B. Lee, p. 246) See also Teachings of Presidents of the Church: Harold B. Lee, p. 24). At first glance this passage seems to agree with 2 Nephi 25:23, but one of the basic principles of biblical hermeneutics (the interpretation of scripture) is that scripture within the Bible (and in LDS theology and scriptures, if it is true) cannot contradict itself. Emphasis mine). (2 Nephi 25:17) 3. In traditional Mormonism, grace is provided to all humanity because of obedience accomplished in Mormonism’s preexistence (i.e., all human chose Jesus rather than Lucifer to be the savior of the world). (2 Nephi 25:23, 26) There is no other way to be saved than through the atoning blood of Jesus Christ. Esau was unfit to serve as firstborn. 25:23 it is by grace that we are saved, after all we can do . 366-367). The idea that “after” means “in spite of” may very well have originated with BYU professor Stephen E. Robinson. In pursuit of, that is, moving behind, following; in search of. Baptism in the name of Christ. 1 Samuel 24:8. To understand just how unclear Nephis words are, a few interpretive questions, none of which has any obvious answer, might be asked: 1. The Lord will bless us to the degree to which we keep His commandments. That [is] the pure doctrine of the scriptures” (Harold  B. Lee, “Viewpoint of a Giant,” Summer School Devotional Address, Department of Seminaries and Institutes of Religion, Brigham Young University, July 18, 1968. Read v. 20 . 25:232 Nephi 25:23 to be a preposition of separation rather than a preposition of time. Thread Status: Not open for further replies. In my opinion, Verse 23 is best read in light of the entire chapter rather than quoted by itself in isolation. I was unaware that the church newsroom had doctrinal tidbits in there (thanks CV75 for pointing in that direction) and as I was browsing I came upon the entry for Grace. BYU Professor Stephen Robinson explained, “At first glance at this scripture, we might think that grace is offered to us only chronologically after we have completed doing all we can do, but this is demonstrably false.” According to Reynolds and Sjodahl, Babylon was one of the great cities of the ancient world, perhaps the greatest. (2 Nephi 26:11) 5. Notice that there is no understanding of “in spite of” all a person could do in this interpretation. But in order for these supreme blessings to be effective in our lives, we should first do our part, ‘for we know that it is by grace that we are saved, after all we can do.’ Let us with faith, enthusiasm, dedication, responsibility, and love do all that is within our reach, and we will be doing all that is possible to achieve the impossible—that is, to achieve what for the human mind is impossible but with the divine intervention of our loving Father and the infinite sacrifice brought about by our Savior becomes the greatest gift, the most glorious of realities, to live forever with God and with our families” (“Attempting the Impossible,” Ensign (Conference Edition), November 2009, p. 34). Read the verses* 300. 2 Nephi 2. Robinson wrote: LDS commentators are agreed that the word after in this passage is used as a preposition of separation rather than of time. The Millenial day, then, becomes a day of song and praise to the great Jehovah-he who gave the law-he who would come and dwell in the midst of his people. Nephi uses these chapters to explain some of the words of Isaiah that he included in the previous chapters. See quote from President Ezra Taft Benson, Institute Manual, 94. He cites from Ephesians that salvation is a “gift of God: not of works,” yet he still says “we will never deserve more than we receive.” Works “alone” can’t save us, he says, as “grace is an absolute prerequisite.” So, in other words, it is not by grace alone but grace and works (“saved by grace after all we can do”). 25:23 at the end. Tag: 2 Nephi 25:23 After “all” the Bishop Could Do, it Wasn’t Enough. This is a classic statement of how grace applies to us. Dieter F. Uchtdorf said: I wonder if sometimes we misinterpret the phrase “after all we can do.” We must understand that “after” does not equal “because.” This additional salvation is an individual salvation and is conditioned not only upon grace, but also upon obedience to gospel law (“Salvation and Exaltation,” Ensign, July 1972, p. 78). I’m here to share my Note Sheet and Scripture Signs for 2 Nephi 11-25. “We are saved by grace…” I started. If the verse said “…we are saved by grace EVEN AFTER all we can do,” we’d have something to talk about. 2 Nephi 25:2 Nephi admits that he has avoided teaching his people many things about the life among the Jews in Jerusalem – because of the wicked lifestyle of that culture. According to; as, consider a thing after its intrinsic value. If the real Nephi of 2 Nephi 25:23 does not “stand up” in the hearts and minds of Latter-day Saints, then we are going to continue to suffer from the same unacknowledged exegetical problem that has plagued us for more than a generation, damaged the otherwise sturdy soteriological bridge between the Book of Mormon and the New Testament, and constructed an unnecessary and foolish barrier between us and many non-Mormon … 2 Nephi 25:23 in the Book of Mormon states: “it is by grace that we are saved, after all we can do.” Many Mormons say this verse doesn’t teach that salvation is based on grace and works. 1. But redemption from individual sins depends upon individual effort, with each being judged according to his or her works. Grace is not merely a decorative touch or a finishing bit of trim to top off our own efforts—it is God’s participation in the process of our salvation from its beginning to … Another general authority, Seventy Theodore M. Burton, cited 2 Nephi 25:23 and explained. Why did most not look at the Brass serpent that would save them and what did the Brass serpent represent? 2 Nephi 25:2 Nephi admits that he has avoided teaching his people many things about the life among the Jews in Jerusalem – because of the wicked lifestyle of that culture. . “Salvation and eternal life would not be possible if it were not for the Atonement, brought about by our Savior, to whom we owe everything. Deadworm's post actually quiet thoroughly addresses 2 Ne 25:23. He looked at me and smiled. In this paper, I offer a theological interpretation of 2 Nephi 25:23 that is distinct from any other in the relevant literature. To judge after the sight of the eye. Second Nephi 25:23 continues to emphasize the necessity of obedience to the commandments of God for a person to obtain exaltation and godhood. Combine that truth with the love we feel for our children, our parents, our siblings, cousins, nieces, nephews, and many other people, and we have a powerful motivation to testify more frequently and in more different venues. Note: The following was originally printed in the November/December 2018 edition of Mormonism Researched. According to the direction and influence of. 25:232 Nephi 25:23 would be that we are ultimately saved by grace apart from whatever we manage to do. The poisonous snakes can represent things we don’t want to give up or sins. Keep the commandments of God or perish. Despite being so rich, they are not very kind to people. Cited in The Teachings of Harold B. Lee, p. 186). And a church manual states, “The phrase ‘after all we can do’ teaches that effort is required on our part to receive the fulness of the Lord’s grace and be made worthy to dwell with him” (True to the Faith: A Gospel Reference, 2004, p. 77). And what is "all that we can do?" In imitation of; as, to make a thing after a model. 2 Nephi 10:24 reaches the exact same conclusion as I do, and is basically a more clear expression of what 2 Nephi 25:23 means: That's the long and the short of it right there. Nephi tries to convince people to believe in God and be saved by his grace. Here are some internet examples of times when you would use “in spite of”: In spite of attracting an income tax raid last year, the minister kept his scams going. Those are the best examples I could find that MIGHT fit the word “after”…but they don’t. “We are saved by grace behind in place after all we can do”—this doesn’t fit. The phrases “the manner of the Jews” is the same in John 19:40 and, “works of darkness” is same in Romans 13:12 . Nephi’s statement “it is by grace that we are saved, after all we can do” (2 Nephi 25:23) has been the source of much discussion among Latter-day Saints. 2 Nephi 25:23 after all we can do “At first glance at this scripture (2 Ne 25:23), we might think that grace is offered to us only chronologically after we have completed doing all we can do, but this is demonstrably false, for we have already received many manifestations of God’s grace before we even come to this point. This word often precedes a sentence, as a governing preposition. What is meant by “after all we can do”? After all, the Bible teaches that there is nothing a person can do to earn God’s favor, no matter how much effort is exerted. “ULTIMATE SALVATION COMES TO THOSE WHO OBEY. The reason we can say that is that God Himself does not change--He isn't wishy, washy. But a certain amount of works (i.e., the best we have to offer) are necessary to trigger God’s grace and mercy. Combine that truth with the love we feel for our children, our parents, our siblings, cousins, nieces, nephews, and many other people, and we have a powerful motivation to testify more frequently and in more different venues. I love 2 Nephi 25:23- 'That it is by Grace that we are saved'- such a great lesson for this week! . What happens if the Spirit of the Lord ceases to strive with man? Other leaders have agreed with Lee’s interpretation of the verse, including: Apostle David A. Bednar (after citing 2 Nephi 25:23): “Certainly, ‘we believe that through the Atonement of Christ, all mankind may be saved, by obedience to the laws and ordinances of the gospel’ (Articles of Faith 1:3)” (David A. Bednar, “Therefore They Hushed Their Fears,” Ensign (Conference Edition), May 2015, p. 49). Confusing words. For we labor diligently to write, to persuade our children, and also our brethren, to believe in Christ, and to be reconciled to God; for we know that it is by grace that we are saved, after all we can do. Read the verses* 300. How important to the interpretation of . Jesus also atoned not only for Adam’s transgressions but for the sins of all mankind. This meaning is apparent from the fact that none of us actually does all he can do (p. 125). "All that we could do [was to] repent of all our sins Its walls were, for height and width, one of the wonders of the world. Nephi explains how in 2 Nephi 25-26. “After all we can do” includes living His commandments. 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